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Author Topic: Upgrading from a Rebel XTi: 5D MkII or 7D?  (Read 960 times)
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icantcu
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« on: January 29, 2010, 01:41:40 AM »

I wrote this for a different, less photography aware crowd over on my own forums Socoicide.com.  So it may read a little like a "hey, guys did you know-" ramble fest, but it's nearly 2AM and it's so much easier to just copy-paste.

_______________________________

So, I've been shooting with a Canona Rebel XTi (400D) since 2007.  I've had a lot of fun with at and takena lot of pictures, as you can see, but it's time to trade the old girl out for something nubile, shiny and capable of shooting gorgeous 1080p through high quality interchangeable lenses.

In the last 3 years I've amassed a small collection of Canon EF glass: 17-85mm f4-5.6 IS USM, 50mm f1.8 II, 70-300mm f4-5.6 IS USM and the one lens to rule them all, my 24-70mm f2.8L.  Suffice it to say, I'm sold on the Canon system and am locked in- brand loyalty, woo-hoo!  Also, now that I've been shooting on a DSLR, I can't see myself ever wanting to use a point and shoot again- well, ok except this one and that's only because it's rated up to 33' underwater which is just damn cool!

Right, so bonus checks just came in, Christmas is over and I'm finally starting to see some positive growth as a result of halfing my rent by having the girlfriend move in, and so of course this means I need to burn off that extra money as quickly as possible.  I will of course sell my XTi along with a lens- maybe the 50mm f1.8 and replace with the more expensive 50mm f1.4-, on top of that I got a great new all-in-one printer/scanner/copier/fax/night-light so I'll be selling off my old printer and scanner- though for that I think I'll just take 'em to the pawn shop and ask for $50 and be happy to get 30- and finally I'll also be selling off my Panasonic DVD camcorder which might get me $100.  I'd sell my old Canon Powershot S30 too, but these days it would be lucky to get me $20 on Craigslist; I think my trusty old Powershot will be better served getting hacked, modded, and tested on things like the underwater camera housing made from two condoms and a used toilet paper roll.

Suffice it to say, I can afford to splurge a bit here and so I'm considering either the $1,700 Canon 7D or the $2,500 Canon 5D MkII.

What's the biggest difference between these two, you ask?

Why does one cost nearly a grand more?

Size!

No, seriously, your girlfriend's lying to you; size matters!  Specifically, the 5D MkII has a full frame sensor which means more pixels, more light, more of what the lens (designed on the old 35mm film standard) can actually see.  A full-frame camera gives you a wider viewing angle, better performance in low light, and bigger, cleaner, more easily printed at 30x40" or better pictures.

So, of course I should suck it up and take the big one, right?

Not so easy.

I've been shooting on the cropped APS-C frame for a while now, and I'm really quite comfortable with it.  No, this isn't me afraid to take more camera, this is me measuring a trade off.

The thing is, all those lens I have- 50mm, 17-85, 70-300, 24-70- well, those focal lengths are measured on the 35mm/full-frame standard.  On a smaller, cropped off sensor the proportions change and the focal length is different; my 50 becomes effectively an 80, 17 a 27, 24 a 38, etc.  Essentially, all my lens are more zoomed in and I'm used to being that much closer to the action.  As an event photographer for Bullshido, my 24-70mm- er, 38-112mm has served me really well cage side.

Granted, I could recoup that lost zoom by simply cropping my full-frame photos in Photoshop, but god is that going to take forever after an event where I've snapped 3,000pics (each around 10megs as mere JPEGs).

On the other hand, I could finally get some really pretty wide angle shots when I go on a photo walk in DC at night, plus whereas the 7D only goes to 12,000ISO (my puny Rebel only went to 1,600 so, yeah, 12,00 is still incredible) the 5D MkII goes to 25,000 and it does it with less noise because it's larger, faster, and just has more damn pixels.

Then there's the issue of video.  The 5D MkII was Canon's first DSLR to boast 1080p video recording, and it shows; the 5D MkII shoots at a nonstandard FPS whereas the 7D can choose between PAL (European) or NTSC (American) standards as well as much higher frame rates at lower resolutions- hint, that means you could slow the footage to 30fps and get le' wicked slow-mo.  From the reviews and feed-back I've heard, the 7D simply functions better as a video camera.

Finally, here's the thing that got me to scratch my head, stop and think about my previous statements of "I IS R B BUYING 5D MKII FER BIRFDAY! YAY!": frames per second in burst shot mode.  For sporting events and action shots, this is vital- no matter what your sensor or lens or photoshop can do, if you didn't actually catch the moment when it was there you're SOL.  The 5D MkII shoots at about 3.8 fps in burst mode, but the $1,000 less 7D shoots at 8!

To wit

Quote from: dpreview.com
At eight frames per second the EOS 7D is the quickest APS-C DSLR that we've seen in our labs so far. The frame rate is impressive on itself and even more so considering that with a very fast card, such as the Sandisk Extreme Pro, in JPEG format the 7D can maintain this speed indefinitely (well, we gave up after approximately 60 sec or 320 frames) and for 24 frames when shooting RAW. Surprisingly that's even better than the official Canon specification (126 frames in JPEG, 15 frames in RAW). The initial frame rate is still maintained when shooting RAW+JPEG but only for seven frames.

Whereas

Quote from: dpreview.com
While the 5D Mark II has a higher frame rate than the original 5D, it would never be mistaken for a dedicated sports camera (the pedestrian AF tracking puts that idea to bed anyway). Having said that, it can still be used in fast-paced situations as long as you don't rely on the machine gun approach to shooting. Notice the extra speed shown with the UDMA-enabled Lexar CF card. If you want to get the highest speed out of this camera in a continuous shooting situation, use a UDMA-enabled CF card, shoot JPEG or both. One thing to note is the large speed penalty for shooting RAW and fine JPEG; if you need RAW files, shooting only RAW is a much better choice speed wise.

So, there you have it.  More or less, anyways.

EDIT: I'm just going to humbly ask for a little help here rather than keep the original line.

...

Which was- What say you, those of you who bothered to read or have meaningful input?
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icantcu
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« Reply #1 on: January 29, 2010, 01:51:01 AM »

Oh, and the original thread over on Socoicide.com.  Just in case you want to see how a different, more general forum responds.
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« Reply #2 on: January 29, 2010, 09:47:10 AM »

Okay well basically you have to make a decision between the 5D and 7D.  Here are my "comfortable" opinions:

Based on your comment "5D MkII goes to 25,000 and it does it with less noise because it's larger, faster, and just has more damn pixels."

I think the 5D MkII does have better ISO signal-to-noise than the 7D but not because it's a bigger, faster, and more mp sensor, if anything the more mp might hurt its performance more than help, but it does because it has better silicon compared to the 7D, aka better sensor.  See DxO's IQ Sensor Comparison be sure to hover over the right y-axis to see an actual image comparison across the different tabs.

As far as video, well I just don't know enough about it.  Sure, I'm flattered and excited that I can take 1080p 30fps HD video and I know how to render it for youtube/vimeo, DVD, and BlueRay after many hours of reading on the web, but I don't think I'll use it more than about 5% of the time.  Yes, I'm selling our Canon Elura 80 Mini DV camcorder because now I can get quick clips of our sons during key events like birthdays etc. I can tell you this much, if you are serious about doing video, it seems most serious videographers are going the 5D route based on the volume over on http://www.cinema5d.com great resource BTW.

Now here's my humble opinion on crop vs. full-frame: 
Taking the same photograph from the same location, same camera settings at 200mm:
On crop sensor lets say compo is perfect and the sensor is 10mp.  Now lets say we take the same photo on a FF with a 10mp sensor.  Well, the compo will certainly be different...what is it about 33% more coverage?  Okay so we crop to match the same compo and voila, we have the same image right?  I don't think so...we would produce the same compo but the FF image would suffer from lower pixel density/resolution since it was taken at 10mp too.

Now take the same situation above and say the first shot was taken with the 7D at 15mp and the second shot the 5D at 21mp.  If the 5D shot was cropped to the same compo as the 7D shot and the resultant mp was 15mp after crop, then what's the difference in setups?  Now what it this was done with the 7D vs. 5D Classic...well the classic doesn't afford you the crop in this case.

Just my thoughts.
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